Post-95 female singer talks to Apple CEO: the impact of AI and evolving technology

Source: There is a new Newin

It’s an interesting conversation with British post-95 pop singer Dua Lipa at the BBC with Apple CEO Tim Cook, who learns about Tim’s personal journey, including his upbringing, philanthropy, and his perspective on tackling global challenges.

In addition, they delve into the far-reaching impact of AI, the evolving tech landscape, and their response to climate change, and explore the intersection between creativity, leadership, and innovation, and here’s what this rare conversation is all about, enjoy~

Dua Lipa:

Before this interview, I went online to see how much the Apple company was worth. It’s shocking. It is the largest company in the world, valued at around $3 trillion. I guess that’s an incredible number in itself. I guess it’s more than the country as a whole, and in a way it’s roughly equivalent to the GDP of the UK or France. I know you’ve only done one interview in the UK and I consider myself very lucky and honoured that you chose me to talk to Service 95.

I’m serious, really excited, because I’m really looking forward to diving into some of the issues that you’re focusing on now and in the future, and what you’ve learned about technology, life and leadership in your 25 years at Apple, which is incredible. Shall we start now?

Tim Cook:

Okay, I can’t wait to get started.

Dua Lipa:

It’s not every day to be able to host the CEO of the world’s largest company in my living room, so I should take advantage of this opportunity to get some advice to help me balance my work and life, and I wonder what the day-to-day running of a company like Apple looks like? Can you tell us about your day, from the time you wake up to the end of the day?

Tim Cook:

I woke up early, like an early bird, about 4:56. I’ll spend my 1st hour processing emails. I’m very serious about it, and I read a lot of emails from customers and employees who tell me what they like about us, or what they want to change about us, and they give me their opinions, but it’s a way to get a sense of what the community feels like, and I love it.

Dua Lipa:

It’s amazing, and then after you’re done with the email, you go to the office, is there a more variety of things there?

Tim Cook:

Well, before I go to the office, I go to exercise.

Dua Lipa:

Okay, email and workouts.

Tim Cook:

Exercise. I usually spend 1 hour in the gym doing strength training, okay? I have a trainer who really pushes me to do things I don’t want to do, and during that time, I don’t work at all, I never check my phone, okay, I just focus on working out.

After my workout and a shower, I go to the office and start working with people I like, and it’s an incredible feeling to work with people who bring out the best in you.

We basically all believe that 1+1 = 3 and that your idea plus mine is better than the idea alone. It’s like this all day, and I’ll divide the day into spending time with the product team, the marketing team, or the executive team, etc., and we’ll either work on the day’s issues and hopefully we’ll be more on the things going to be in the future and thinking about what’s going to be next.

Dua Lipa:

It’s remarkable. I mean, I want to go back to the beginning, you grew up in a blue-collar family in a small town in Alabama, and now you’re leading the most valuable companies in the world, and it’s been a pretty incredible journey, can you tell me a little bit about your upbringing? And how it got you down that path?

Tim Cook:***

My childhood was such a long journey. I come from a very modest background, my mother worked as a clerk in a pharmacy and my father worked in a shipyard, a very blue-collar family with a lot of love but very little money as a child, they really taught me the value of hard work and instilled in me at a very young age that work can give you a huge sense of purpose, which is a key part of life.

I’ve actually been delivering newspapers since I was 13 years old, and I’d get up in the middle of the night to deliver newspapers to everyone so they could get the newspaper when they got up in the morning, and after that I did all sorts of jobs, whether it was flipping burgers at the local Tasty Freeze, or doing other things, I would do it because I really wanted to go to college.

My father was in the shipbuilding industry, which is prone to layoffs and is a very cyclical industry, so we go through more difficult times during layoffs. I always wanted to get myself something better, a more regular, more reliable job, so I wanted to go to college and improve myself, and I ended up going to Auburn, which is a public university in Alabama, and I loved it there.

Dua Lipa:

What was the college experience like?

Tim Cook:

The college experience was incredible, I was a bit crazy at the time, of course you have to learn, you have to do it, and the world has opened doors for me, I’ve always been curious, but in college you get to be more curious because you can take a lot of different courses and challenge yourself in different intellectual ways. It was wonderful, and then I started my career, first at IBM, then grad school at Duke University, and finally at Apple.

Dua Lipa:

It’s been an incredible journey, listening to you, I think when I was younger, I think I always wanted to have a job, I was 13 years old and still in school, I think my first job was going to a pharmacy in the neighborhood where there was a lady selling something similar to the Swedish version of Avon or something like that.

I think I took this catalog to school and sell products to girls, so that was my first job, and then the job started to grow from there, but a long time ago, I had a dream, I always wanted to make music, I wanted to be on stage, I wanted to perform. I think when I was about 10 years old, I thought, I really want to do this, but I never knew it was even possible, what is your dream? Have you ever thought you’d be the CEO of Apple?

Tim Cook:

To be honest, I never thought I’d be like that. In high school, I wanted to be a musician, I learned how to play the trombone, I was actually never very good at it, but I wanted to join a jazz band, I was in a marching band for a while, and then I realized that I wasn’t good at that.

Well, it’s not my calling, but I love math and science, so I decided to study engineering in college, and I initially focused on robotics, learning how to make products on the manufacturing line, which was really cool for me because I love creating things.

Dua Lipa:

It’s great to know more about you, because I think it’s fair to say that we know a lot less about you than we do about the more extroverted leaders of other big tech companies, what kind of leader are you trying to be?

Tim Cook:

I strive to be a good leader. I try to be a person who really believes in collaboration, because I do believe that by exchanging ideas with each other, this creates bigger ideas than we could have alone. When you can do that with larger groups, not very big, but a few people, the size and impact of these ideas can grow exponentially, and you can create incredible things with them, whether it’s creating a product or marketing, or whatever you’re working on together. I’m really convinced of that, so my leadership style is to try to get everyone to work together that way.

Dua Lipa:

The art of collaboration, I think is special when minds come together to create something truly unique. There’s a myth surrounding your predecessor and Apple’s founder, Steve Jobs, that he’s a great vision leader.

I watched a movie called Jobs a few years ago and it was a fascinating subject. At the same time, when you joined Apple in 1998, the company was almost bankrupt, and today, it’s worth about $3 trillion, about 90% of which was achieved during your tenure, have you ever wondered if you didn’t get enough recognition?

Tim Cook:

To be honest, I don’t see it that way at all, Steve is the original, I think only Steve can create Apple, and we owe him a debt of gratitude. I’m sure that if he were alive today, the company would have done a great job and he would still be the CEO, so I don’t see it as a matter of recognition. In addition, I get to work with people I love who are incredible at what they do, so we share this recognition as a company.

Dua Lipa:

It’s great, I think you’re an amazing leader, and in many ways. When you came out publicly in 2014, you were the only Fortune 500 CEO to come out publicly, and today, 10 years later, that number has increased to 4. Yes, so there are only 4 publicly available CEOs out of 500 companies. First of all, what’s going on? I think we’ve made even greater progress than that, why do you think we still don’t see equal representation at the top of business?

Tim Cook:

I think there’s still a glass ceiling, and it’s not like that in every company, and we’ve broken the glass ceiling at Apple, we’ve smashed it, and the people before me, I’m standing on their shoulders, and we’re pushing it further.

I think it’s strange that there is still a glass ceiling in a lot of companies, and I am convinced that everyone deserves respect and dignity, and if you look at that from that perspective, a lot of other problems will disappear or even not arise at all.

I do think that not only LGBTQ, but also women and people of color still have a ceiling, and we have more work to do, and society has more work to do in many countries around the world, most countries.

Dua Lipa:

I’m also interested in racial diversity in business. I’ve checked before that there are currently only 8 black CEOs in the Fortune 500, and I guess that must be important to you because you grew up during the civil rights movement in the Deep South, do you have anything that has influenced your memories of equality today?

Tim Cook:

Yes, I remember the scene when Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated, and it was an extremely sad moment because he was such a great man, and you feel like he was leading the world in the direction it was supposed to be, and it wasn’t quite clear who else was going to succeed him, and in the same year that he was assassinated, Bobby Kennedy was also assassinated, and that was in 1968.

I was 8 years old at the time, and the combination of these two assassinations was indeed a heavy burden for me, a very young person, knowing that these two men were pushing humanity in the direction it needed to go. It was a very sad time.

Dua Lipa:

I guess we have to mention the iPhone when we talk about Apple, my first iPhone was an old phone that my dad gave me, and then I signed a contract to buy my first one, I think an iPhone 6 or something similar, but I was really excited when I got it.

Today it becomes a part of my body, I even have a small indentation on my finger because I use it too often, but when I use my phone, I am conscious.

I’ve been working on my phone, but I try to consciously pick up a book instead of using it, especially when traveling or flying. Still, I use my phone a lot, and I would like to know what you think about excessive use of mobile phones, especially among young people, and what to do if anything?

Tim Cook:

I think the use of smartphones is really excessive, including the iPhone, and that’s why we introduced Screen Time, and frankly, we want to reveal the amount of time you spend, similar to what we do on the watch, which promotes you to move more, burn more calories, and stand more.

On mobile, we’re looking at this from the opposite angle, asking if you really want to spend five hours a day on your phone or whatever, and also tell you what you’re doing? where are you spending your time? We’ve also done things like show how many notifications you’re getting, because sometimes it’s not how much time, it’s interruptions.

Dua Lipa:

You mean constantly checking your phone all day long.

Tim Cook:

That’s right, I remember when I started using the tool before it was released, I was shocked at how many notifications I received in a day, I was embarrassed by the number I received in a day, and I quickly went to see who was sending me so many notifications. I started cull some notifications from different teams and I felt like I could catch up on these at the end of the day.

Exactly, I don’t need to know the moment something happens, so I think screen time is important, and certainly for kids, if you’re a parent, it becomes really important to set some parameters about where they’re spending their time, what apps they’re using, and we have the tools for all of that.

Dua Lipa:

Interestingly, I made a small change on my phone, if I get a notification, the text message I get doesn’t show up, it only shows “notification”, right? I think it helps because once you see the message, it’s hard to ignore it, so when you just see it says “notification”, you think, “okay, I’ll look at it later, I’ll check when I have time” I think these parameters are good for young kids or teens who often stick to their phones.

Tim Cook:

I’ve always said that if you spend more time looking at your phone than you look at someone else, you’re doing something wrong and you need to correct the direction.

Dua Lipa:

I think that’s really important for us. This year, I feel like it’s more than ever, and every time we turn on the news, it seems like there’s another climate catastrophe, and I think all of us are really worried about the climate crisis, our respective industries.

I think everybody is trying to figure out what is right to do and how we respond to everything that’s happening. I’m just wondering what Apple’s climate strategy is, and what do you think is the hardest problem to solve?

Tim Cook:

That’s a good question. A few years ago, we started operating the company with 100% renewable energy, but we realized that it wasn’t enough, we had to focus on our supply chain, which is mostly outside of our company, and the energy needed to charge our products in our customers’ homes and offices, so we set a goal to make the entire product cycle carbon neutral by 2030, with all products carbon neutral, which is 20 years before the Paris Agreement.

Dua Lipa:

I’m sorry, carbon neutrality is like offsetting, right?

Tim Cook:

Well, carbon neutrality is the complete expulsion of carbon emissions and then offsetting the remaining carbon emissions with planting forests or grasslands and so forth, which can absorb carbon from the atmosphere, and if you look at the Apple Watch, some of the models of the Apple Watch that we just launched a week ago are now carbon neutral, which is seven years earlier than we initially thought it would be possible.

The way we do this is that it contains a high percentage of recycled materials, so we’re in a position where we can stop extracting certain products from the planet, which creates carbon emissions. We have a lot of solar farms and wind farms in terms of renewable energy, and then in terms of transportation, we’ve significantly reduced the packaging so that we can ship more products, and we’ve moved them from the air to the sea so that the carbon emissions are lower. This has allowed us to reduce our carbon footprint by almost 80%. The combination of these tasks, and then the last 20% we compensate for by high-quality offsets such as planting forests and grasslands.

Dua Lipa:

For me, it can be a little bit difficult to try to understand the terms, so we have carbon neutrality and net zero emissions, and it also includes things like greenhouse gases, am I right?

Tim Cook:

Most people say carbon neutrality is when carbon has been reduced to the lowest level possible at the moment, and then the rest is compensated by offsetting, some people use different terms, but that’s how we use it.

Dua Lipa:

It’s not the same as zero emissions at all, right? Zero emissions is what we’re trying to achieve, and I guess that’s the goal that we’ve set for this planet, how do we do it?

Tim Cook:

When I think of zero emissions, I think of no offsets, and when I think of net zero, I think of including offsets. I think in the long run, we have to believe that it’s possible, and in the short term you need some level of offsetting to get to carbon neutrality.

Dua Lipa:

You just mentioned recyclable products, and while I was doing my research for this interview, I came across some harrowing articles about young kids mining cobalt in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. I guess that’s a complicated issue for all tech companies, and what I want to know is, my new iPhone 15, can you guarantee that the cobalt in it isn’t mined using child labor in the Democratic Republic of the Congo?

Tim Cook:

Yes, we can guarantee it, because we did two things. First of all, I should say that our long-term goal is to make our products without taking materials from the earth, which is a big idea, without mining anything, using all recycled materials.

Today we use 100% recycled cobalt in our watches, and we also use 100% recycled gold, tungsten and other rare earth materials in our watches, and we’re very proud of that, but for the other products that we still need to mine, we have a strict supply chain that goes all the way back to the mines and smelters to make sure that the labor used is not child labor, and we think we’re doing a good job of that.

Dua Lipa:

Great, it’s like looking into the future, as is true for all new products. When I transferred my old phone data to my new phone, I also saw a service that allowed me to recycle my old phone.

Tim Cook:

yes, that’s a good point of view because what we’re trying to do is, we know that people want to upgrade and get a new phone, and if you have a phone that works well, we’ll clean it up and sell it to other people who want to buy a used phone; if you have a phone that’s not working, we’re going to tear this product apart with a robot and recycle the material, and it’s going to be part of the recycling content of the new phone, there’s a closed-loop process there, and we’ve done a lot of work in making sure that we reuse all the old stuff.

Dua Lipa:

I’ve always been fascinated by one thing in the field of technology, and that’s AI, and sometimes I feel like I have a good understanding of the potential of AI, but sometimes I just don’t understand it at all, I just think it’s too complicated, but I think most experts agree that AI is going to revolutionize our world.

It’s almost like the invention of the internet, and I think you’re probably more qualified than most people to speculate what the world is going to be? I just want to know what you think about it?

Tim Cook:***

I think the first thing to know is that if you’re an Apple customer today, AI is already present in a very important way in all the products that we produce, we don’t label it that way, if you’re composing a message or an email on your phone, you’re going to see predictive typing trying to predict your next word so that you can quickly pick the word, and that’s AI, so AI is everywhere today.

What’s sparking people’s imagination lately is generative AI, and the use of LLMs, and I think that’s also a field where you can change lives, and it can change lives in a good way, because of what it can do, like in the future, I don’t mean today, it can help diagnose your health problems. There are a lot of things that AI can do, and unfortunately it can also do bad things, which is something I’m more worried about.

Dua Lipa:

It looks like AI can do a lot of great things, but I also feel like it poses a profound risk and threat to humanity, like telling me that AI is going to destroy the world.

Tim Cook:

This new form of AI, generative AI, requires some rules of the road, some regulations about how we use it. I think a lot of governments around the world right now are looking at this and trying to figure out how to do that, and we’re trying to help.

We were the first to say that it was needed, that some regulations were needed. For us, we’re very thoughtful about how we deal with these things, so we think deeply about how people are going to use our products, and if they can be used for nefarious purposes, we don’t go down that path.

Dua Lipa:

What I’m wondering is, are governments really able to regulate AI, or have we gone beyond that?

Tim Cook:

That’s a good question. I think most governments are a little bit behind in this area today, I think that’s a fair assessment, but I think they’re catching up very quickly, and the US, UK, EU, and several countries in Asia are quickly catching up, and I’m sure there will be some AI regulations in the next 12~18 months, and I’m fairly confident about that.

Dua Lipa:

I feel like it could be catastrophic if it gets out of hand.

Tim Cook:

We absolutely need to control it.

Dua Lipa:

It’s really a sign of the times, things are changing rapidly, and so are all new products. When you think about it, smartphones have revolutionized the world, obviously and the internet, and now AI is going to completely change the world, which product or technology do you think will have a similar transformative impact in the future, do you think it will be an Apple invention?

Tim Cook:

We launched the Vision Pro in June, where you can sit in your living room and your virtual world can overlay your physical world, and all of a sudden you and I might be having this conversation, and we might want to reference something, you can bring it up in the space, and we can talk about it, and if you’re just looking at something on the Vision Pro, you can select it with your eyes.

Dua Lipa:

It’s so fascinating.

Tim Cook:

It’s crazy because people pick it up like this, they can’t believe how easy it is to use, but we’ve spent years researching and developing this product to make it so simple and easy to use that it works like your brain.

Dua Lipa:

If you looked at something, what would you expect it to do? How far do you think we’re from technology really becoming a part of our body? In a way, we’ve got there because the watch somehow becomes a part of your body, right?

Tim Cook:

It’s measuring everything you do, your movement, your standing, your workouts, your heart. It’s looking for conditions like atrial fibrillation and warning you before the symptoms warn you, and I think wearable technology has become an extension of your body, and as you mentioned earlier, the iPhone has become an extension in a lot of ways.

Dua Lipa:

It’s a complete extension of my body, and I guess we’re probably not far from it becoming a part of us, but I’m always wondering, do you think this will improve the human condition?

Tim Cook:

I think it’s a must, the technology itself doesn’t think about being good or bad, it’s the creator of the technology who decides. You can trust that we’re very thoughtful in what we develop, so our technology is for good, and it really enriches people’s lives, not distracting them.

Dua Lipa:

It’s really cool. I think there must be a lot of people listening to this interview who want to get into the tech industry, what advice do you have, do you need to know how to code, or if I have an English degree, can I work at Apple?

Tim Cook:

We have some suggestions, we recruit people from all walks of life, people with a college degree, people without a college degree, people who can code, people who can’t code. I do recommend that everyone learn to code because I think it’s a way to express themselves and the only global language that we all share is programming and I recommend it, but we also recruit people who don’t know how to code, we recruit a lot of people who don’t know how to program on a day-to-day basis to do other things.

I think one of the traits that I’m looking for in people is collaboration, and we’ve talked about it before, can they really work together? Do they believe that 1+1=3 is important. I think curiosity is a trait that I love, people who are curious about how things work, how people think, all the why and how to do it. I like creative people because we’re looking for people who can see around the corner, and ultimately we want to create products that people can’t live without but they don’t know they need.

Dua Lipa:

Okay, you want to be at the forefront.

Tim Cook:

Yes, all of these traits help me think of being a great team player.

Dua Lipa:

I can only imagine that you’re making a lot of money at Apple, and you’ve said that you’re going to give away most of your wealth, and I guess Bill Gates made a similar promise, and his grand vision was to eradicate poverty and disease, what are the global challenges that you want to solve, and what are you going to do?

Tim Cook:

Because of my background, equality is an important issue. I am convinced that everyone in the world deserves to be treated with respect and dignity, and I will direct my resources accordingly, and I also want to ensure that those who are or have been in the situation I have been, from families with no significant income, are able to go to school.

I think education is the regulator of equity, so I’ll also put some of my money into scholarship funds to make sure that kids in these areas can do well and have the opportunities that I once had.

Dua Lipa:

Imagine young Tim Cook growing up in Robertsdale, Alabama, are you happy with where you are?

Tim Cook:

I feel very humbled about where I am, I feel privileged and want to give back, I want to help others achieve the dreams that I have achieved, I never dreamed of being the CEO of Apple, it was beyond my dreams of myself, but it happened and I wanted to make sure that others did the same.

Dua Lipa:

I like that, you’ve been with Apple for 25 years, how do you plan for the next 3~5 years? Do you plan to stay until 2050?

Tim Cook:***

2050 may be a bit too much, I don’t know how long I’ll be there, I love Apple, I can’t imagine life without Apple, so I’m going to stay for a while.

Dua Lipa:

Okay, cool, so do you have a succession plan?

Tim Cook:

We’re a company that believes in having a succession plan, so we have a very detailed succession plan because there’s always something unpredictable going to happen, and I might be taking the wrong step tomorrow, but hopefully that doesn’t happen.

Dua Lipa:

I believe not, can you share who will be the successor?

Tim Cook:

I can’t say, but I will say, my job is to have a couple of people ready to be able to succeed, and I really want the next CEO to come out from within Apple, so my role is to make sure that the board has a couple of people to choose from.

Dua Lipa:

It’s amazing, it’s really great. I love talking to you about all things life, leadership, technology. Actually, I like to end my conversation with a list, I read about your love for national parks, and I know you’re a very keen hiker and love hiking, so I’m wondering what are five national parks in the United States that are worth visiting?

Tim Cook:

It’s hard to make this list because there are so many excellent national parks, but I would say Yosemite, which is my native national park, and in a way, it’s very beautiful, the Grand Canyon, Grand Teton Glacier, and Zion.

Dua Lipa:

There are a few that I haven’t been to yet.

Tim Cook:

They’re all very special, and when you’re in them, it reminds you how small we all are in relation to the magnificence of nature, where hiking and sweating is a bit like a palette for mind cleansing, and for me it’s extremely meditative, and I love it.

Dua Lipa:

As special as it sounds, I need to do more hiking and adventure and spend more time outdoors.

Tim Cook:

I highly recommend, this summer I went to the Dolomites in Europe, the Dolomites are truly amazing, I was so excited to be there, the hikes and Via Ferratas are incredible, I highly recommend and I will go back.

Dua Lipa:

That’s so cool, my next and last list is, we recently started a 95 book club and I love asking my guests about their reading lists, can you share the 5 books that have shaped you?

Tim Cook:***

Yes, as a young student, To Kill a Mockingbird, I think it’s not just for young students, but it’s still important for all of us. “Shoe Dog” is Phil Night’s book, which was supposed to be a business book, but it’s really about life, “Breath Becomes Hollow” is extraordinary, Malala’s book “I Am Malala”, I love Malala’s story and her passion for educating young girls, we worked with her, and the work she did was incredible, and then I enjoyed reading biographies about Martin Luther King, Jr., Bobby Kennedy, and some of the great people who advanced civil rights.